This is no reason to price them with a disparity of 15-20 thats just a poor outlook. e.g. Just saying individuals like that who do that have no moral compass. As Infringements Assistant, you will assist with all things relating to infringements. Cheers. All I can say is that the metal quality is horrible. Its even happened with the newer hobbit resin models that are supposedly of better quality (its nowhere near forgeworld quality). And dont forget about the spacedwarfs aka squats. Illegal sellers proliferate on second-hand portals, ebay, e-mail contacts and even mobile aplications for peer to peer trading. This is exacerbated by them constantly suing companies for IP infringement like the Spot the Spacemarine case. With Z, the above linked infantry squad is $16. GW seldom does. Whats the actual law being broken when trading for a recast model? However, basically its the same piece, without any add-ons, so it works to do the comparison. It is the same, in my opinion, as downloading movies and music that you havent paid for the right to see. Its all for love. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. We see three key points to avoid these false copies: And if after reading this article you want to do something positive about this, its quite easy actually. This also amounts to stealing somebody elses work. Seriously, if you received the package and looked at it carefully, you would understand what we are talking about. It is not a matter of victimization or educating anyone, but it is about making all our followers understand that the illicit practices of the recasters are causing us to be little by little in danger of extinction if we continue to feed them. What companies are u using for recasts? From the beginning thought of a new model in their head to putting it on paper, and into real life. I have to necro a bit here. Man, either you are some kid, troll or just an idiot with no capacity to think logically. Mainly because it is ILLEGAL. So as far as Im concerned welcome to freakin reality; where everything is as shodily made as they can get away with and consumers will seek in the inevitable tug of war to get the most value for the very sacrifice of their lives for the slim hope that they might spend some of it in enjoyable repast. I do not buy such copies for moral reasons, but I will not buy original figurines. Plain and simple. It is our aim to be an inclusive and wholesome place for all. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars creating their cast presses for the units. 33% of the original, and with a positive experience in my pocket Im more likely to stick into the hobby, which means more long term profits. It leaked that it costs Games Workshop about $5-$7 per a box of Marine Tac squad. Lets say I want a cheap 1k starting army, but Im a college kid who cant justify the outrageous cost ($250 minimum, plus the hobby equipment and paint for at least $300 min). I would say though that what you talk about is a different topic to what we are discussing in this post. The above is, again, scare-mongering. Seriously, those copies are better quality than originals looking only on those pictures. Lets look at Netflix, people didnt think streaming would have as big of an effect as it did as before that everyone blamed everything on pirating. The models chosen are both from Forgeworld, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the classic Lietpold the Black. When you create a community of over 200 players/painters from occident and another 300 mainlanders, manage to make an order form for let say greenstuff world for those 500 lads to get legit stuff, and you are being told : you guys are thief so no we wont deliver in China because we do not want to get copied While saying that to a European. If you happen to know of any second hand recast seller, or on-line store selling these fake products, we encourage you to contact the corresponding company affected so they can take proper measures against it. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. No well known miniature company is safe from this practice. So if people in the third world cant pay western prices having recasts means more of a hobby presence that pushes those who value original source into an ongoing if not growing stream of business. We arent saying you shouldnt buy alternate versions of models that you can use in your tabletop games. Youre not automatically entitled to them. LET THEM sink. #22 to #20 - manollette . Prisons are filled with thieves. Although you will see the very evident differences, during this comparison you will find the original piece on the left pictures and the recast to the right. The recasts I buy are better quality and for what I would 80 quid for from forge world I can buy from China for 20 dollars including delivery. the books are out there the rules are out there, it would be like if Monopoly was suddenly no longer made every one knows the rules and can build their own board quit being GW fan boys they dont give a shit about you. These artists may not be local, but they are the ones putting all of their time and effort into bringing you these wonderful creations, only to be outdone by a random recaster. Thanks for the guys who give chance for better value and access to minis that I will never otherwice will be able to buy. No it is killing the cinema. There was something about those little-colored blocks that started it all Twitter @catdaddymbg, Get ad-free access to our hobby videos, a monthly crate of miniatures, and support some of the best creators out there for as little as, If you buy something from a link on our site, we may earn a commision. Is it okay to create my own miniatures if they are not a product that Games Workshop creates or has any copyrights on? Both have exactly the same parts. Take these smaller companies making stunning models for half the price or even less, how is that possible? Too draconian prices. Here in Spain we call it Chinoforge, the one that pretty much everyone has heard of. The models they had to sculpt digitally and then cast in a way they would both fit in the box, and be easy to mass produce. I have also had some which are close if not flawless. How can anyone claim the second company is not greedy, and yes the second company gets targeted by pirates and the first doesnt. Game workshops prophit have been that big that instead of making their models cheaper for their customers they gave their staff a 2 thousand pounds bonus ( tax purposes) so boo hoo if the greedy fuckers are losing in the grand scale of things pocket change. Because there truly is no real money in the miniatures business. We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process.. For the sake of this report, we have acquired a couple of Chinese illegal recasts as well as their respective originals, and we are going toshow you in detail why there is no point at all in buying these pieces of bad plastic. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/. We are talking about recasts: illegal copies of miniatures. People who use recast try to paint GW as the bad guy and the others that protect GW dont want to have a conversation or rationalize their thoughts. I have been here buying from my local store from the past 25 years. I wouldnt take a recast even if someone gives it to me for free. Great article, it is a fair fight and I am seriously pleased to see this being taken seriously, even in the comments section. We mainly cover Warhammer 40k, Fantasy, Age of Sigmar, Warmachine, Hordes, X-Wing, Infinity, Horus Heresy, and Star Wars Armada. I got several figs from them, all ended up at GW legal that promptly provided me with a . A model is too expensive in your opinion and dont worth the money? All rights reserved. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models. They should be 30% of that and maybe nobody would copy that. Copyright 2009-2023. Shortcuts: "C" opens comments. Recasts and piracy, in general, is suddenly on the rise across the hobby as a whole, as other manufacturers and independent artists are also starting to take a hit. Recast companies will be making more profit than the small indies as they dont have any other costs. I would agree with most of the points expressed in the comments, that the moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft. Ill just download the PDF for free. Its material has still some margin for manipulation, as opposed to the one in the recast copy. . Forge world is horribly over priced and shit quality. But good way to name and shame yourself, although I doubt there is any shame there. Squats went 20 years ago because no one was buying them. is it going to cause the game to completely vanish if the company were to shut down ? Exactly so. Its partly to do with inflation, but mostly due to the declining numbers of people going. Reporting to our Senior Legal Counsel, you will be part of our Legal team which handles a wide range of legal matters which affect Games Workshop including infringements, trade mark and copyright protection, competitions, dispute resolution and litigation, to name but a few! Im having to search now forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models. during the month, more than 5 times the quantity that me (the creator, designer and fighter) sold the same month. You stole it. This really rips ma knitting this! GW rant incoming: I agree with buying recasts only when it is GW. There are so many classic wfb models Id love to buy, but the second hand market is just crazy since aos happened and some models are just near impossible to find, even if you have the money. As it goes for GW story is different as plastic is better, quality great and models in box sets are not so expensive. I myself am very pro recast, that being said maybe 5-10% of my models are recast. Totally agree with you, its morons like them who are putting a nail in the coffin of our hobby, I bought a recast by mistake off eBay, I thought I was buying a genuine Pegaso figure, when it arrived I knew instantly of the mistake Id made, everything that is bad in a casting was plain to see, the main thing being it should have been cast in white metal and was instead a poor resin cast instead, thankfully eBay took action and swiftly booted this pirate off. All that artistic work, ranging from concept, development, sculpting, marketing or quality control, has a price. Or rather, do they produce miniatures with base polystyrene produced in highly toxic factories in China and Vietnam? Ill never buy legitimate versions now with the re casts being so good from where I get them from. FJ was developed by a multicultural team of various beliefs. Also, these fake copies come without any instructions (as opposed to, of course, the original Forgeworld copy). Thats despicable. Do they source their injection molds from Australian materials and Mexican labor? To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. FWs resin is also crap and brittle, not sure what your point is there. The resin used is crap, brittle, with a lot of detail being lost and probably it is even toxic. Some of the casts I have bought would struggle to be used as scenery they are that bad. GW also has a massive network of stores. that is a crap attitude, and glad I dont know you and have anything to do with you. @Greg. It is our mission to bring you the latest from the miniature wargaming scene, from narrative missions, hobby how-to tutorials, battle reports, unboxings and reviews, retro flashbacks, news, rumors, and more. As much as I loved the action parts of the 10th edition cinematic, Guilliman's speech was an underrated highlight that goes harder than some might not have realized because it constantly cuts between his speech and badass action. Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. You are completely right about this. How Imperial Agents Work in 10th Edition & Free Arbites Rules! I get that its not just the model, the companies have huge overheads prior to selling a model. Why, then, does FW (who run a much smaller operation, fewer employees, use silicon moulds rather than the hundred thousand pound plastic ones) charge 40 for a box of 10 Krieg Troopers? Sure, theyre making each box manually. My only experience with recasts were a set of transparent Tau stealth suits which, while everyone agreed were really cool, I was told not to use them. You arent using a recaster, he is using you. After evaluating each and every aspect that could lead us to look for a cheaper product, we see that getting the original product will undoubtedly make our experience with the miniature hobby much better. Try to pay a good concept designer, a good sculptor, a good painter for box art, than doing promotion, pay tax, location, bills and what else and dont forget you need to have profit for time and risk you took. I have a motto I live by it.regarding others if you lie,you can cheat,cheat you can steal, steal you can.lets just say theres many cases of some folks needing something bad ,dont have the money and try and steal for itthings escalate and then murder becomes involved. to produce a 45 dollar marine squad it cost 5 bucks, sure. Especially when taken out of context or without a clue of whats going on here Sure there are Chinese recasters, unfortunately I hate to break it to you, but all of the biggest and well known recasts world wide produced here are made by westerners Bummer. However, I bring up a different point the recasters, who are using what amounts to slave labor in the sweatshops working with toxic resins? Also, if you think this is going to destroy GW, check out their profit margins in their annual business reports. Despite asking them to send me the fake Venator model, they sent me the normal fake Tauros model, a shorter version than the one I requested. All names, trademarks, and images are copyrighted by their respective owners. Im now buying models that Id never buy because they are crazy expensive, for example forgeworld knights. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). Let explain with the simple aim of making you understand it the true depth of your act. or have you forgotten about the atrocious quality that was Citadel Finecast, here despite the shit quality we still saw an increase in price. Rackham died because they didnt know how to run a business. What do you think of the latest Warhammer recaster to get shut down by Games Workshop ? The assumption that any money spent on recasts would have gone to GW is incorrect. Quality and durability is a real issue with their resin, Ive had several LoTR finecast models break on me while gaming far too easily, usually on fine detail or blades thats near impossible to effectively fix. Spain (for example) has been famous for doing this for a while. Nor is an active and enterprising collaborator of many projects related to our community, contributing with ideas, work on social networks and the Internet. You have not idea about, a totally ignorant. (and here I come back the argument) its the small independent places that can no longer get the movies into big cinema chains because they wont bring in the numbers to cover the costs. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Get ad-free access to our hobby videos, a monthly crate of miniatures, and support some of the best creators out there for as little as$6 a month on Patreon! Youll argue but I havent taken anything and the owner of the IP still has their product. But heres the kicker. A lot of resin has to be removed, rectified and even replaced with putty. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. If that was to happen then there is a chance of changing something. Spikey Bits is a registered trademark of Purple Elephants. For legit business there is high quality resin, concept art, sculpting fees, box art, advertising and labour, please dont minimise this with a flipant statement. If you plan on punishing players (and I mean PUNISH them) when you compare what you offer for what other reasonable vendors offer, you find re-castes are a result of your own actions. Recast popularity reflects that or they would not keep popping up. Their pricing model hurts the growth of the hobby, it doesnt promote it. In addition, as you will see later, the casting is not good and irregular surfaces of material are very evident. There's several recasters that operate based on email, and the subreddit posts reviews of their products. Warhammer fantasy was half my life and then they did this to me.. fuck them. Continue with Recommended Cookies, A major recaster in China is closing up shop after being contacted by Games Workshop regarding their Warhammer. There was a demand so the pirates appeared they sell cheaper and often better quality. Many other companies offer products as good as theirs or even better for a lower price. However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry . Recasting can come out of any country, I can think of at least seven countries from which recasters regularly produce illegal copies. This would be paradoxal. Games workshop not only wants lots of money for its live figures (5 euros for guardsman from krieg !, more than for metal ones!). Discover the magic of the Internet at Imgur. Famous search engines of Chinese products show easily references of companies like Andrea Miniatures, Nocturna Models, Young Miniatures, Knight Models, and many others. The China Warhammer recaster known as CDR recently announced that they are: shutting down business for good and that a handful of people are buying all their master molds. a 6th edition metal dwarf throne of powers market price on ebay is now around 160, thats way beyond the reach of most hobbyists, definitely out of the reach of kids. Also, the resin used for the recasts is a very smelly material, with a very weak and brittle body, and you have to be careful with it at all times. I also dont really care that much, GW killed warhammer fantasy so I dont mind if they get whats coming to them. The resin *can* be toxic, but buying from larger recasters is safe. New 40k, AoS, & More: GWs Release Preview LATEST, Orks & Christmas Bundle White Dwarf November 2018. If you dont have the money to afford models, dont buy them. The analogies used are baseless. Its common knowledge, but still kind of a secret. 1. The more people there are who are anticipating the reveal of new stuff are there because there is an established community and it only gets better the bigger the community is. The current situation especially benefits those people who kept their stuff in boxes rather than paint/assemble/game with them, essentially those who buy the product but dont take part in the hobby. No? At a glance, recasts appear quite similar, but when looked at closely, important flaws become evident. All of my recasts are better quality that forgeworkd or other manufacturers. Now we have to spend 40 on a family trip to the cinema. They are the backbone of the operation and have done this for years to create wonderful minis as well as a great line of paints. As you see, this is nightmarish no matter how you look at it. The elitism of GW is a prime example; They go so far as not allowing official models in their store tourneys, even when a reasonable counts-as. Bollocks. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for "Forge World" than last week at this time. hell do they even pay their staff a decent wage. That does not mean I only buy from a recast seller , but expensive and big models worth of the discount . For the good health of our hobby. It looks all of you here have enough money to afford 300 pounds a month to spend on models. Games workshop has an extremely bad ethic towards its pricing, I saw a comparison of two kits, with a near identical amount of plastic used for the construction and both were released in the same time frame and likely designed side by side. The surfaces are very rough, have lots of pores and bubbles, there are important burr steps or details covered by extra resin. Appealing to modelers if futile in my opinion, there is not enough power in that argument to change buying habits. That is the price ofany original model. western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, its a joke. Save Money On All These Alternative Miniatures. You aren't allowed to use recasts in a GW store, for one (though depending on the quality, people might not notice). The person being greedy here is you. Maybe it will work for them but I think they are pushing away many potential newcomers to the hobby which is the future. Right now, a few companies simply stopped selling to Russia as their figures instantly get listed on pirated stores. You guys do a great job on this site/blog. I hope the author never watches streaming movies or mp3s. @ Greg Smith: That attitude is killing the hobby. I perfectly understood is time wasted, but something in me hope you understood the type of scum you and your friend are. Suffer in the worst way possible. And I do not buy the excuse hey, this is an expensive hobby. In this role, you will be monitoring websites and sales platforms to identify infringements and counterfeit products and then you will follow a structured process for removing those products, reducing counterfeit products available across all sales platforms and websites. Recasters mates, I got a leviathan dreadnought for 40 NZD, Here I was just about to order a god damn Storm Hawk and their page gets ----ing annihilated, Rip, they should be back up in a couple of days. The first company produces models that are far better sculpts and casts than the second. Someone mentioned looked at Rackham games as if recasts are why they went out of business. Enjoy the hobby, dislike the business practices. The figure in the picture (Nash) Sold 32 uni. This had to be done because it was nearly impossible to identify many of the pieces that came attached to large blobs of resin. I have no remorse whatsoever for GW. But there is a thing Id wish to point out, its the Chinese stigmatisation I am french living in China for about ten years now, and Chinese bashing is just a constant thing I hear from most of westerners and is absolutely not right either. A movement has started to help raise awareness about the loss of income these folks have started to experience recently. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. Thank you for your inputs Rusty! The quality is just as good as forgeworld, sometimes you need to add a little greenstuff though but the same goes with forgeworld models. 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